第一次去,住银座,该去哪,做什么?(就是每天在外边玩 12+ 小时那种)
- Re: 东京 6 天posted on 10/22/2009
gz wrote:
第一次去,住银座,该去哪,做什么?(就是每天在外边玩 12+ 小时那种)
我没去过日本,因为一直想有大块的时间再去,save the best for last.
不过你要我的意见吗?你去东京是要做事顺便玩还是怎么呢?这是第一次去日本吗?
- Re: 东京 6 天posted on 10/22/2009
玩顺便开会,但会一如既往地逃会。以前仅在机场旅馆过夜,不算去过吧。 - Re: 东京 6 天posted on 10/22/2009
那没办法了,你必须呆在东京吧。
我本来想说,如果是我,一周的时间,我会直接去京都住着。我的好朋友当年也是这样的,没有在任何日本其他城市停留(大阪机场出来直接坐火车到京都)。
京都值得这个待遇。
如果你呆在东京,那就随便逛呗。浅草上野明治神宫这些地方大概你都不会落吧。
如果是我,我大概还会去靖国神社看一下。 - Re: 东京 6 天posted on 10/22/2009
京都! 京都! 京都! - Re: 东京 6 天posted on 10/22/2009
谢啦谢啦! - Re: 东京 6 天posted on 10/22/2009
我本也想说,skip东京,去京都呢。还有一个溲注意,guanzhong你可以买个一周的train pass(要在美国买好),价钱相当于去京都一个来回。去京都新干线只要两个还是两个半小时(pass不能坐最快的),你不是每天都有12+小时呢么,还有至少七个小时给你逛,可以多去两趟,还可以去奈良。哈哈,小蜜蜂一听就要。。。东京的博物馆不错的,忘了哪家,上野附近。 - Re: 东京 6 天posted on 10/23/2009
浮生 wrote:
这回碰到行家了。在日本语言是个问题吗?(咱一句不说,除了偶哈腰狗砸一马死)大街上的老伯姓听得懂简单硬文吗?要不写汉字?小地方的人呢? - Re: 东京 6 天posted on 10/23/2009
没有没有,快玩慢玩都是玩,没有孰高孰低。XW批评得对,我是虚心接受的。将来我们不还要光速旅行吗,快玩算什么。
日本可看的地方太多了,因为是中国的mirror image. 关中你enjoy. - posted on 10/23/2009
gz wrote:
这回碰到行家了。
什么行家呀,我也都是匆匆,只有tips for fast traveling:)再给你一个,要是真去坐火车,买个bento box火车上吃,比咱们的盒饭好吃多了,就不用再浪费时间去吃饭了,除非你是美食家。
在日本语言是个问题吗?(咱一句不说,除了偶哈腰狗砸一马死)大街上的老伯姓听得懂简单硬文吗?要不写汉字?小地方的人呢?
你在什么地方语言有过问题啊?作为游客不就是吃饭和问路么,最不济吃饭可以指、问路可以比划。只有一样和别处不同,因为汉字会先入为主,你读到的中文音和听到的音不一样,这个弄得我开始有点儿忙活,倒不如人家不认汉字的。要是坐公车、地铁听announcement,记住地名拉丁字的音,有时打出的显示也不一定有汉字。我记得和人写过汉字,管用。若是小地方不标英文的,看车次时间opening hour什么的,记住星期六日是什么,他们用日月五行顺序和咱们的还不一样。
说实话,读日文汉字我是觉着很frustrating的,给人一种明白的假象,因为汉字部分多只是名词,动词形容词多是假名,就是说你可能知道它说的是关于什么的,但不知道是关于它什么的:)
日本曾经是中国的mirror image,可是,我觉着它和中国太不一样了。这是我以前记的:
I took the trains up and down and was utterly charmed by what I saw. A sense of "geographical determinism" came into my mind time and again: this is an island culture solidly built upon its rice and its wood, and it is being carried to the extremes. What, then, does Japan not develop into the extremes? It is a rather narrowed view that I wish to expand yet I know nothing about Japan.
On the surface, I see a rather strong parallel between Japan and Britain. Both are sizable islands not too far yet just far enough from the mainlands. Both have arable lands. Their climates are mild but not too warm--mild enough to grow crops, and cold enough to grow tough people. When possible, they expanded territorially, eventually making parts larger than the whole. When such possibility diminished, they expanded inwardly, as if their energy always needed an outlet. The internal expansion is reflected in their attentions to fine details, and their tendencies toward delicacy, subtlety and reserve. This ability to grow inward seems infinite, much like fractal.
And on 川端康成——
I finally decided to read some Japanese novels. I started with Yasunari Kawabata. Immediately I was enchanted. His words, or rather the translated words, were so ethereal, delicate and quiet. Yet the quietness is filled with passion, desire and tension. Anything can be a subject of beauty. Even a few words on trees moved me. The details can be elaborate, but nothing is trivialized. Much is left unsaid, as in an old Chinese painting, leaving boundless space for imagination. The characters are in fact all rather intense (are all Japaneses like this?); the exhibited peace and reserve is doubly gut-wrenching. It is as if two persons, sitting there facing each other ever so politely, have exchanged thousands of words without actually uttering a single one. The "Thousand Cranes" is so; "The Old Capital" is more so. Words are flowing like placid water but full of magic and undercurrent. Is this quintessential japan? I wonder whether English translation or Chinese translation is closer to its essence. - posted on 10/23/2009
浮生我没有跟你唱对台戏啊,但是关中,我觉得你还是老实待在东京好了,别开个会还搞得狼奔豕突的。京都是需要细览的,就象值得好好关爱的人,不适合狼奔豕突的看。
你在东京有足够可看的东西。浮生提到的博物馆,加上明治神宫这些,够你看了。另外,上野公园不忍池附近有甲午海战日军从战败的中国镇远舰上拆下的铁锚和炮弹,你若有心,别忘了去看一下。
要想离开东京,去横须贺是比京都更好的短暂选择。一是离东京近得多,二是横须贺代表日本近代开国的肇端(佩里--黑船),和东京气质更贴近。美日海军基地都在那里,有足够的纪念馆让你看到日本近代开国的精神(三笠公园--东乡平八郎--皇国兴废在此一战)。 - posted on 10/23/2009
浮生 wrote:
说实话,读日文汉字我是觉着很frustrating的,给人一种明白的假象,因为汉字部分多只是名词,动词形容词多是假名,就是说你可能知道它说的是关于什么的,但不知道是关于它什么的:)
哪有这么夸张。我学过日语---不过太久不用现在快忘光了(要计划去日本的话,会提前捡起来)。你总结得对,但基本上能认汉字是优势。虽然也不能望文生义,因为很多汉字和我们的意思不一样了。
日语和韩语一样,动词在最尾(土耳其语也是这样---不过当年我韩国好朋友特恨土耳其同学凑上来说土耳其和韩国象:))。所以关中,你不用害怕一句话最后作为动词的假名(句子中的假名多是助词),因为做为游客,你基本上只需要关心名词。
日本曾经是中国的mirror image,可是,我觉着它和中国太不一样了。
浮生,镜像里的东西是一样但相反---所以是一样又不一样。在国际关系上,它特别指代我们眼里的竞争者(敌人)的形象。
I took the trains up and down and was utterly charmed by what I saw. A sense of "geographical determinism" came into my mind time and again: this is an island culture solidly built upon its rice and its wood, and it is being carried to the extremes. What, then, does Japan not develop into the extremes? It is a rather narrowed view that I wish to expand yet I know nothing about Japan.
哈哈。地理决定论,钻石先生的粉丝啊。
On the surface, I see a rather strong parallel between Japan and Britain. Both are sizable islands not too far yet just far enough from the mainlands. Both have arable lands. Their climates are mild but not too warm--mild enough to grow crops, and cold enough to grow tough people. When possible, they expanded territorially, eventually making parts larger than the whole. When such possibility diminished, they expanded inwardly, as if their energy always needed an outlet. The internal expansion is reflected in their attentions to fine details, and their tendencies toward delicacy, subtlety and reserve. This ability to grow inward seems infinite, much like fractal.
这个我要想一下。以前从来没想这样以SIMILARITY来比这两个国家。很有趣。但sidenote一下先,英国文化更象是日本文化的antithesis.
And on 川端康成——
I finally decided to read some Japanese novels. I started with Yasunari Kawabata. Immediately I was enchanted. His words, or rather the translated words, were so ethereal, delicate and quiet. Yet the quietness is filled with passion, desire and tension. Anything can be a subject of beauty. Even a few words on trees moved me. The details can be elaborate, but nothing is trivialized. Much is left unsaid, as in an old Chinese painting, leaving boundless space for imagination. The characters are in fact all rather intense (are all Japaneses like this?); the exhibited peace and reserve is doubly gut-wrenching. It is as if two persons, sitting there facing each other ever so politely, have exchanged thousands of words without actually uttering a single one. The "Thousand Cranes" is so; "The Old Capital" is more so. Words are flowing like placid water but full of magic and undercurrent. Is this quintessential japan? I wonder whether English translation or Chinese translation is closer to its essence.
写得好棒。我蛮喜欢日本文学的。
我有个日本师兄,我跟他说川端康成,他骇笑半天,说太老的东西了,他只粉村上春树。LOL - Re: 东京 6 天posted on 10/23/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
哪有这么夸张。
嘻嘻,don't always take my words literally. 这么说是不是不夸张了,Ignorance is a blessing,而最难过的是一知半解 :) - Re: 东京 6 天posted on 10/24/2009
浮生 wrote:
嘻嘻,don't always take my words literally. 这么说是不是不夸张了,Ignorance is a blessing,而最难过的是一知半解 :)
我还蛮喜欢陶潜的“好读书不求甚解”的。
有一点点有会于心的时刻或者人,就足够了。:)
可见你比我认真。你和阿姗都认真。 - Re: 东京 6 天posted on 10/24/2009
浮生,你得空可以列一个日本和英国的“异”吗? - posted on 10/25/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
浮生,你得空可以列一个日本和英国的“异”吗?
You got me. 我说的“同”基本是从地理出发,也就是那么一想。这两个国家看上去很不一样,可真让我列我可列不出,因为所知甚少。而且一想就想到他们一样的地方去了,比如君主立宪。只有一样stereotyping came to mind immediately: 英国人比较会自嘲,日本人过于tense。我没有用serious,因为我眼里这个上面他们相当。这个区别所反应的我的感觉是,fundamentally,英国人比较自信甚至chauvinistic,日本人insecure。这个原因除了欧洲中心至少部分和他们的imperialism history有关:Britain succeeded big time, and Japan marginal。他们现在所面对的continental power也不一样,可能也是为什么英国人不大喜欢EU,总有点若即若离。都是random thoughts,不如你来给说一说吧。 - posted on 10/25/2009
浮生 wrote:
我说的“同”基本是从地理出发,也就是那么一想。这两个国家看上去很不一样,可真让我列我可列不出,因为所知甚少。而且一想就想到他们一样的地方去了,比如君主立宪。只有一样stereotyping came to mind immediately: 英国人比较会自嘲,日本人过于tense。我没有用serious,因为我眼里这个上面他们相当。这个区别所反应的我的感觉是,fundamentally,英国人比较自信甚至chauvinistic,日本人insecure。这个原因除了欧洲中心至少部分和他们的imperialism history有关:Britain succeeded big time, and Japan marginal。他们现在所面对的continental power也不一样,可能也是为什么英国人不大喜欢EU,总有点若即若离。都是random thoughts,不如你来给说一说吧。
说的挺好的。
只一点,这两个国家都有显著的political deference的政治文化。虽然deference内里也不一样。
- Re: 来自东京的问候!posted on 10/25/2009
刚住进旅馆,同时有一个大中国团队在 lobby 里喧嚣,给我 check in 的又是个中国女孩,没说两句英文就换中文了,虽然是第一次到日本,竟然没有半点 otherness!
算是挺高档的旅馆了,房间却小的要死,只在英国住过这么小的房间。
再聊,先安啦! - Re: 来自东京的问候!posted on 10/26/2009
旅馆是什么名字?说不定能给你出些主意.... - Re: 来自东京的问候!posted on 10/26/2009
xyz wrote:
旅馆是什么名字?说不定能给你出些主意....
出啥注意?你有本事给我搞个大点的房间?:-)
其实我挺满意的了,一个人住着挺好。你的好心就心领了啊!
下了一天雨,还是遵小蜜蜂之命去了明治神宫。雨中的大树林阴森神秘。
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/明治神宫 - Re: Rposted on 10/26/2009
Shibuya at least for one day. - Re: 来自东京的问候!posted on 10/26/2009
gz wrote:
下了一天雨,还是遵小蜜蜂之命去了明治神宫。雨中的大树林阴森神秘。
记得遵浮生命去一下京都呢。她写了一大篇TIPS给你,为佳人狼奔豕突的机会下次不知在何时呢。
浮光掠影也会带来惊鸿一瞥,正好给你念兹在兹下次重访的借口。
---------------
你去完京都若在东京还有时间的话,还可以去泉岳寺。 - posted on 10/30/2009
小蜜蜂 wrote:
gz wrote:记得遵浮生命去一下京都呢。她写了一大篇TIPS给你,为佳人狼奔豕突的机会下次不知在何时呢。
下了一天雨,还是遵小蜜蜂之命去了明治神宫。雨中的大树林阴森神秘。
浮光掠影也会带来惊鸿一瞥,正好给你念兹在兹下次重访的借口。
---------------
你去完京都若在东京还有时间的话,还可以去泉岳寺。
狼奔豕突去了神奈川的镰仓,一个充满历史韵味的美丽小城,满城的寺庙神社都有七八百年的历史。昨天又去了箱根,一个风景优美有湖有山的小镇,可以远眺富士山,可惜我这次没运气,云太多,没看见。
也遵命去了靖国神社,感慨良多,回家再细谈。现在该收拾收拾去机场了。
- Re: Rposted on 10/31/2009
Jessica wrote:
Shibuya at least for one day.
I stayed in Shinjuku, and every time I came back on the train from towns south of Tokyo, I knew I was home when I saw 渋谷。(这个字怎么念?) - Re: Rposted on 10/31/2009
gz wrote:
I stayed in Shinjuku, and every time I came back on the train from towns south of Tokyo, I knew I was home when I saw 渋谷。(这个字怎么念?)
不知道。查字典,渋 同 涩
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